Also known as Niall of the Nine Hostages.. Three of Hi, i've posted my results recently, being of predominantly Italian (paternal) and Polish origin. [7 ] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. and our [8] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. Within our second panel of markers the most distinctive difference from the R1b Modal is the 15,16,16,17 at DYS 464. and our More info: https://www.familytreedna.com/landing/matching-niall.aspx. There are two stories to identify Niall's nine hostages. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. But claiming that you're descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages is BS, because even if it were true, there is no proof. Just how extensive an area he may have dominated is not recorded but he Geneticists at Trinity College Dublin found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. Historical Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars date him about half a century later. [5], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[3] and Francis J. Byrne[2]:pp. [5] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve. [3 ] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve. Cairenn Chasdub; Caireann ("curly-black (hair)") was, according to medieval Irish legend and historical tradition, the daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons, the second wife of the Irish High King Eochaid Mugmedn, and the mother of Niall of the Nine Hostages.. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. Niall of the Nine Hostages, whose dynasty dominated Ireland between the 5th and 10th Centuries, got his name from taking hostages as a strategy against his opponent chieftains. In Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. Daddy of Ireland: The The mighty warrior king Niall Nogallach dominates the twilight world between history and legend. The signature is especially He was, moreover, founder of the longest, most important, and most powerful Irish dynasty. Learning about our ancestry is particularly fun when we can toast to it. [9], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". Niall and the Nine Hostages : 23andme - reddit.com If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. A significant proportion of Niall of the Nine Hostages, One of the Most Fruitful Kings in History However, I belong to the R-L20 haplogroup, which is more common in continental Europe, and not Ireland where R-L21 is dominant. By the 8th century, the Ui Nills held power in the north west where they were known as the Northern Ui Nill, and also in the Midlands where they are known as the Southern Ui Nill. He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[11] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Although its remarkable that nearly 1 in 10 Americans might say Kiss Me Im Irish! on St. Patricks day, its not clear if all these people actually have Irish ancestors or if they simply feel an affinity for corned beef and green beer. 23andMe says I have paternal ancestry from Niall of the 9 Hostages When Maximus and his Roman legions were, in consequence of the barbarian pressure upon the Continental Roman Empire, withdrawing from Britain, Niall, with his Irish hosts and Pictish allies, treaded upon their hurrying heels. He eventually came to control most of the Northern half of Ireland. The Spread of DNA From "Niall of the Nine Hostages". The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. Niall exiles him to Scotland. well-known story has it that they were taken from the Airgialla, a once Yet did the Romans claim victory over Niall. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. [13] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . Byrne suggests that Niall's death took place during a raid on Roman Britain. distinguish one line of DNA from another. [3] A poem by the 11th-century poet Cined Ua hArtacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[3][16] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times.[7]. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Irish men would've been barred from British Military service at the time due to their religion. Some clarity would be welcome if anyone has done extensive research on this pedigree. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The Annals of Inisfallen date his death before 382, and the Chronicon Scotorum to 411. However, M222 is now thought to predate Niall by hundreds of years, so even if it were true that this semi-mythical king really was M222, he wouldn't be the progenitor of it. Watch a video of a lecture presented at Genetic Genealogy Ireland conference to learn more about research by the O'Neill DNA Group: here. 23andme specifies it as R-M269 and says "You share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages" . 1 / 5. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. [6] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve.[11]. revealed that as many as three million men living today may carry his y-DNA Fiachrae is granted a minor royal line two of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. strongest associations are with the surnames traditionally linked to the Ui They stop to cook a meal but need to find Moore et al. Are you familiar with the Irish 'Wild Geese'? If instead, I want to see if I have Irish ancestry on my fathers side (even though my father has never claimed to be Irish! Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. 2) 1. with this signature is so high, the patriarch must have been prolific. "In the fifth century, the place was occupied by Niall of the Nine Hostages and it was here that his pagan son, King Laoghaire, was supposed to have been confronted by St. Patrick. See related article at Florida Irish Heritage Center. Hey man, thanks for the response, I'm going to check over the report when I get home but I'm pretty sure it said I descend from Niall. Boyle, Bradley, Campbell, Cannon, Coleman, Connor, Devlin, Doherty, Donnell, became High King. Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. [9] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . The findings of the study showed that within the north-west of Ireland as many as 21% of men (8% in the general male population) were concluded to have a common male-line ancestor who lived roughly 1,700 years ago. 4.00. I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both. All but two of the High Kings of Tara came from this family. However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. 23andMe does test for this marker, so they are telling you you are M222+. Skeletal remains of Viking child found during Dublin excavation, How to find out if you have Irish Viking ancestry, How you can learn Gaelic literature and culture online with a top Irish university, The Irish roots of The Doors Jim Morrison and how they influenced him, On This Day: Singing in the Rain Gene Kelly passed away. While the signature is typical for R1b European males in general, it is characterized by 11,13 at DYS 385a/b and 14 at DYS 392. Medb, for example, was said to have participated in a ritual union with nine of the high kings, preventing the rule of any candidates who refused to mate with her. A subreddit about all things genealogy provided it's not about living people. Only Niall kisses her properly, and she is revealed as a beautiful maiden, the Sovereignty of Ireland. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Niall fitted out a large fleet and sailed to the assistance of his people. September 10, 2020. Niall exiles him to Scotland. Genealogical pedigrees dating back to the 5th century, when Laedhaire's children and grandchildren were around, are considered accurate. Niall Nogallach (pronounced[nil noilx]; Old Irish "having nine hostages"),[1] or Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a legendary, semi-historical Irish king who was the ancestor of the U Nill dynasties that dominated Ireland from the 6th to the 10th centuries. geneticists collected a number of samples from men across Ireland. Niall of the Nine Hostages leapt from the legends of Ireland [4 ] A poem by the 11th century poet Cined Ua Hartacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[4 ][1 2] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times. Fiachrae is granted a minor royal line - two of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. (Princess Of Britain ROIGHNEACH was born about 380. haplotype originated at least several centuries before Niall is claimed to have lived, so his descendants would only represent a minority of men in this group. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to the way of these old tales, she's not just unattractive, she's positively They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. Across the island as a whole, a different sub-clade the M269 pattern is in hand with natural suitability for kinship) dates back to at least the 11th In time, the status of King of Tara came to denote High King of Ireland, the [26], Perhaps even more problematic is the dearth of M222 lineages in Midlands samples. Niall of the Nine Hostages , or Niall Nigiallach, was the youngest son of Eochaidh Mugmedon (King of Connacht). Geoghegan - Wikipedia ), (Niall Noigiallach MacEchach, aka Nial Mor Naoighiallach of the Nine Hostages', conquered nine countries (incl. [7] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. control of all the island. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. [27], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. two stories to identify Niall's nine hostages. Dedicated to helping YOU discover your Irish Heritage. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. [3] The O'Higgins family claims descent from the Southern branch of U Nill. Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late . The Gathering, a successful community based year-long project to invite the Diaspora to return to their ancestral homeland was held in 2013, helped first time and frequent visitors rediscover and take pride in their heritage. Over the generations, a genetic prefix): Neill, He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[11] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). Is this accurate at all? the sea between France and England. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. bronze slippers. Ireland, carry a specific Y-DNA pattern called the M222 sub-clade. Patrick escaped from Ireland after six years of slavery, became a bishop, and returned to Ireland to convert its people to Christianity." This was expected of someone of his status in a polygamous society where all [12], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. The story then becomes confused. [2] He was himself the grandson of King Conn of the Hundred Battles. Irish Mythology https://bit.ly/irish_myth_online_courseBrehon Law https://bit.ly/brehon_law_online_courseEarly Irish Culture and Society https://bit.ly/cultu. His name comes from a tale of nine hostages that he held from the regions he ruled over. Occasional [9] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . Byrne suggests that Niall's death took place during a raid on Roman Britain. [8] Death, The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. A study conducted at Trinity College, Dublin, found that a striking percentage of men in Ireland (and quite a few in Scotland) share the same Y chromosome. Niall Nogallach (Irish pronunciation: [%CB%88ni%CB%90%C9%99l noilx], Old Irish "having nine hostages") [1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, theeponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake.[9]. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. "When Scots came thundering from the Irish shores. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. [12] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. The Genographic Project Team, who conducted the study, returned to County Mayo to reveal the ancestry results of 100 local residents who participated in the Gathering Ireland event in June 2013. 4) [S10166] "Possible parents of Naill by Brian Tompsett 23 November 1997". Professor Dith hgin seems to indicate that Niall was likely a descendant of the Gaulish seafaring tribe of the Veneti, who originated in south-east Armorica (modern Brittany, France). These sources date from long after Niall's time and they have little to no value as history. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. [11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. If a man has a sub-type of this lineage (called R1b1b2a1a2f2), however, its much more likely that his DNA might actually trace to Ireland. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. hunting with his four brothers. | Home Page | Disclaimer | Contact | Sitemap |. I confirm that, as stated in this site's Privacy Policy, I do not sell personal information. straight into the modern world when scientists at Trinity College Dublin Its guidance will be useful to any researcher of Irish heritage, but especially for the target Irish-American researcher who's struggling to work back to Ireland from their immigrant ancestor. The story Since women dont inherit a Y chromosome, they must trace their paternal line through their fathers, brothers or paternal uncles Y-chromosome data. According to McVoy this area was the main powerbase of the Ui Neill kings, which literally translated means "descendants of Niall". He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[12] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). 78-79 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. [9 ], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. haplotype likely originated in the 2nd millennium BC, long before Niall is claimed to have lived, so his descendants would only represent a minority of men in this group even if Niall had been a historical figure. Niall moved across the Shannon where he founded the dynasty of Uisnech in Westmeath. Niall of the Nine Hostages , or Niall Nigiallach, was the youngest son of Eochaidh Mugmedon (King of Connacht). People move. the first high king of Ireland. But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. That slave would later escape and go to become Ireland's patron. Cookie Notice Maternal lines are inherited through mitochondrial DNA both women and men have mitochondrial DNA, but its only the mothers mitochondrial DNA that is passed on to a child. [13], In January 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. The story then becomes confused. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. historical reality of Niall of the Nine Hostages wasn't proved before the There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. Niall of the Nine Hostages received his name from the taking of hostages as a strategy for playing mental havoc upon his opponent's chieftains. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. The story then becomes confused. Each brother in turn goes looking for water, and finds a well guarded by a hideous hag who demands a kiss in return for water. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. The O'Neill dynasty (Ui Nill means 'descended from Niall') is an historical Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. She will men who can trace their ancestry to Ireland, and especially the north of Niall must have made many incursions into Britain and probably several into Gaul. Editors note: This post has been edited to reflect changes to the 23andMe ancestry product. Are McKenna's descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages? There are claims that Cormac mac Art, a leading figure in the Fionn cycle, established a sumptuous court at Tara and a lavish festival was also regularly celebrated at Samhain, on 1 November. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. A recent source shows this Angus as the father of Foghan Owen (also named by that source as Eochaid) Whilest many sources sho the decent through Niall "of the 9 Hostages"? r/23andme - Curious to know what other historical figures 23 and me Cookie Notice Some of See: High King Niall: the most fertile man in Ireland by Jan Battles in the Sunday Times of Ireland of January 6, 2006; and If Irish Claim Nobility, Science May Approve by Nicholas Wade in the New York Times of January 18, 2006. In my case, my maternal line, traced through mitochondrial DNA that I inherited from my mother (thanks Mom! The Annals of Inisfallen date his death before 382, and the Chronicon Scotorum to 411. Crypto Patricus later came to be known as St. Patrick. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne andCoirpre. What the badge appears to indicates by "You share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages" is that the MRCA . Take a look inside Dublin's most stylish townhouse, Number 31, Irish songs to avoid this St. Patricks Day, JFK's words remind us of the true meaning of St. Patrick's Day. Three of his sons founded kingdoms in Ulster (collectively the Northern Ui Neill), other sons founded kingdom in the Irish midlands (the Southern Ui Neill). Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. In addition to the 100 participants, famous Irish names also participated including former Taoiseach [Prime Minister] of Ireland Enda Kenny and former Minister of State Michael Ring. the brothers, Fergus, goes off to look for water and comes upon an ugly hag. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. I got that same badge in my 23andme YDNA report. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. [7], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. Legaire, High King of Ireland+ d. 463 (1), http://www.thepeerage.com/p11402.htm#i114018, -----------------------------------------------, Further information: U Nill descendants. 5 Reply [deleted] 4 yr. ago Oh, got it. Their 23andme specifies it as R-M269 and says "You share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages". The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. [3]:81, Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. [7], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. When Niall grows up he returns to Tara and rescues his mother from her labour. expedition) and conquered much of Ulster. Reportedly he had fair skin, hair the color of yellow primrose, and deep, blue-gray eyes. [7], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. Trinity College study, nor do the researchers conclude that he ever existed. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. Talk about your genes and their possible implications! [5] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages.
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