That's pretty elaborate. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. Mountain lions live in the state. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. Wildlife biologist breaks down mountain lion sightings in CT | New Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests - AP NEWS We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Think you've seen a mountain lion? Thank you. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Peter Biello: Wow. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. So one thing I'll add. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. Caller: Oh hi. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. Thank you very much for listening. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. What kind of animal is that. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. I'm Peter Biello. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. It's listed as population of least concern. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. List of mountains of New Hampshire - Wikipedia John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. I don't know if she still is. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. If so that's for us as an agency. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. Have you seen one. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. Alleged mountain lion sightings put Derry, Windham residents on edge Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. There are corollaries in other states. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. Thanks for your call. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. So do they. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. So. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Mountain Lions in NH - Facebook Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. 50 feet above the most. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. Theres tracks everywhere. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Administrative Links. Are there mountain lions in New Hampshire? : r/newhampshire - reddit Saddleback Mountain Lions So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Windham Life and Times - November 15, 2019 Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. So. Let's look for other evidence. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. These were normal everyday folks. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. She is renowned for tracking. John thanks. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". Good morning guys. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. Let us know your story and share your photos! I have one that's more elaborate than that. You saw what you saw. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. Thanks for calling. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. History of Mountain Lions in New Hampshire | NH Wildlife Mike thanks for your call. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. OK. Do they travel. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy Caller: Are probably. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. New Hampshire Public Radio | I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Something along those lines. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. Early in the morning. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. And those are not the same things. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. Give today. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. We'd love to have you in the queue. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. New Hampshire's Mountain Lions | NH Wildlife County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. New Hampshire Public Radio | Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Mountain Lions in NH. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Patrick Tate: Yes. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. They are the same thing. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. They just end up in these places. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Just. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Well thanks for sharing. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. I'll send it to you. Right. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Tim Yeah. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Part II - WMUR Peter Biello: Hmm. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Really appreciate it. They absolutely do. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. So they're scary. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. Or years or so. David Erler says some of them probably have. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Okay. Thank you very much for being here. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. They're just moving around freely. Okay. And it was unmistakable. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. So you want identifiable backgrounds. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. Like why would you want one wildlife. Yes. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, and then try again. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. Rick van de Poll: Yes. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all.
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