How critical is the primer seating mechanism? It was such a tedious task that I abandoned my original plan of also doing pistol primers. 'https://ssl' : 'http://www') + '.google-analytics.com/ga.js'; And standard both Magnum. I don't have a link to the site , but 6mmbench rest.com or one of those type sites have extensive pages on standard primers. 41 Rifle Primers - 100 Count. rifle in its original stock, and installed a Leupold 6.5-20X scope in Ruger This is a great post and definitely deserves a sticky in the reloading section, Thanks for posting. 100. For this we would leave some loaded rounds in the freezer, and Primer with Lowest ES/SD: Sellier & Bellot LR (12/3.1 fps) well in this rifle before, and we did the same with VVN 540, as it is supposed 0000027388 00000 n The line that shows 0000054298 00000 n (Depends on whether the M in the Wolf name is for Match or Magnum.) That said, I had heard the CCI 450's and #41's were basically the same so I was searching for differences and found these post's. .2232, 16 CCI 300 LP 3.18 Or a small primer pocket. Lauries findings will doubtless influence many hand-loaders who hope to produce more consistent ammunition, or achieve better accuracy. Compare Compare Now. xref the frozen ones. Bullets; Primers; . This is interesting, according to this, Federal Gold Metal MatchKing 308 ammo should not be shot in a AR10 or 308 platform. 1 of the frozen BR2 rounds hag fired. Both are roughly the same diameter. <<917A3329DAD4B341BF9A2FBBF1E535ED>]/Prev 194532/XRefStm 1395>> A write-up will be done soon. Click Photo to read full test results in Target Shooter Magazine.. bullet, 55 grains of Reloader 19, in Winchester brass. Powder Burn Rate Chart; Primer Manufacturer Chart; Shellholder Chart; Bullet Abbreviations; User Loading Data. Despite the nomenclature, this primer is appropriate for some extremely high pressure pistol cartridges, such as the .221 Fireball and the .357 Maximum. 0000010068 00000 n Therefore choose based on other factors, such as accuracy, low ES/SD, cost, cup hardness . It is a standard factory issue; we bedded the Thanks for the insight Rocky. Proud Member Of The NRA. Out-of-Stock. Remington 7 - The only primer specifically marketed by Remington as "benchrest" quality. These include the 308, 25-06 Remington, 300 Weatherby magnum, and finally the CCI No. I quit shooting them years ago because they made a mess of the bolt face even with new W-W brass. It was also years ago and things may have changed. really see any indication from the above test to change that. I suspect they have a minor influence, but thats hunch not science! Firing pin strength also seems to be a definite factor. Get a Remington License Plate Frame for $1 with ammo purchase. So my question is whether you would expect to see a very similar trend among the primers you tested with other cartridges and/or bullet weights commonly used in F-TR or F-Open? 4 Accurate Arms Nitro 100 39 IMR, Co SR 4756. I made one up for rifles cartridges once, for my own use but the method I used isn't very scientific so it might not be valid. I did try a search but couldn't find anything apart from Chainsaws similar unanswered request back in August. I found this a while back but it seems it goes against the Win primers being hotter than the CCI. Product Details. Can you in. Federal Champion No. It is obvious that the thicker cups will withstand more pressure. in red which was frozen over night and then shot. brass. Remington Shotshell Primer All Gauges. The biggest surprise to me came from an elderly (at least 10 years) lot of Czech Sellier & Bellot standard caps with an ES of 12 and SD of 3.1 fps, way below those of the nearest competitor. Use the .308 Win Palma brass and small primers myself. Doesn't appear to work. 0000053794 00000 n Those extra heavy tended to be stronger, and light were weaker. The Effects Of They can cause primer piercing within stout loads in .223 Remington applications. RWS, CCI BR2, Federal 210M, Federal 210, Federal 215 and Winchester standard and magnum LR primers. I think the BR4 is milder than the CCI 400 primers. Or if they are so constantly tweaking their formulas and mixes that the information we're looking for is too much of a moving target. I use cci 400 for my AR with great success ! My experience with the small rifle primers is just the opposite. The main question that remains for me is how the primers results might vary between different cartridges, bullet weights, and powder loads. Primer cup dimensions are controlled to .0001", and the priming mix is specially formulated for consistent ignition with a wide variety of powder types. Heat of explosion per gram is similar as well. I did not put in the individual comments. var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s); By contrast to the Fiocchis, they were an almost slack fit in the cases and this may have contributed to their consistent performance. Laurie Holland. In the recent past I had been using BR-4's but have found the extra flash from #41's to give me slightly better groups at 1k. Cases larger than that we normally used magnum primers. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Equipment reviews (.243 bullets, 30BR cartridge, 6mm Norma Improved, gun barrels, powders, primers, gunstocks, dies), accurizing, 1000yd ranges, ballistics . _gaq.push(['_setDomainName', '.accurateshooter.com']); A forum community dedicated to Smith & Wesson firearm owners and enthusiasts. Primer Flash Test Photos. CCI 250 MAG Large Rifle Primers - 100 Ct. $9.49. Compare Compare Now. Holland, a talented shooter from the UK, tested no less than sixteen (16) different large primer types using a custom F-TR target rifle shot from the bench. Match event calendar and rifle competition accuracy training tips. CCI 400 primers are designed for .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, and .222 Remington loads: NOT for .223 Remington! We have found the TYPE OF PRIMER USED FOR PCS PER GRATING GRATINGS PER BOX BOXES PER CASE WEIGHT PER CASE; kg lb; V360157: Small Pistol 4,4 Boxer: . An old rule of thumb suggests the use of magnum primers any time the powder charge is 60 grains or more. I usually buy several sizes and types of primers in lots of 5000, or 10,000 about once every year or so, as I do most of the reloading for out hunt group,Its not unusually to knock out a couple hundred cartridges in an evening with my dillion reloaders). Non-corrosive, all weather primers deliver fast, dependable ignition under any shooting condition. Seating the Large Rifle primers in a standard Large Pistol pocket may cause high primers . At the other end of the cartridge scale, 2.7 grains of Bullseye, a 148-grain lead wadcutter, and regular Small Pistol primers make up my .38 Special target ammo. You may not reproduce original text or photos without advanced permission in writing. In fact, from testing I and others have done, it almost seems to be capricious in nature, and therefore unpredictable as to which primer(s) might be the best alternatives to test when one is not giving satisfactory results. 6,5 to 9,3 mm. 50 BMG (BMG) CCI - No.35. This is more visual and tells a good story too. In Winchester testing labs, primers are constantly and rigorously tested for consistency and sensitivity at temperatures and conditions far beyond the range of normal usage. Winchester Reloading Small Pistol Magnum Primers. 506 0 obj <> endobj Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The first "magnum" primer, the Federal 215 was designed for this very purpose. German Salazar's pictures were taken in 2005. Three shot groups. t!.>%DBvv 0000053767 00000 n http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0, http://www.mpzflame.ru/production/primers/, www.sinclairintl.com/product/11248/Primer-Pocket-Tools, https://www.rcbs.com/priming/bench-mounted/automatic-priming-tool/16-9460.html, The Snobbiest Town in The Snobbiest State in the N, Fiocchi, Ginex, Murow Small Rifle Primers, Experience 223 Remington. Handloader Magazine does it every once in a while. The first "magnum" primer, the Federal 215 was designed for this very purpose. The pressure used to seat primers, pocket uniforming, flash hole uniforming, and seating depth are all factors. It was topped with a Leupold 6.5-20X scope in Leupold 2.7-3.5 .2406, 17 Federal 150 LP 3.11 Every serious hand-loader should definitely read the full test results to understand Lauries methodology and get all the details. LPM = Large Pistol Mag . Many shooters wrongly believe that BR or magnum models have thicker brass and are therefore 'tougher' than standard . Primers are tested for reliability from -20 degrees F to +150 degrees F. I think all of the flame pictures help illustrate that the variety of primer models do different stuff despite all primers being divided into just a few categories. Must add the Remington License Plate Frame to your cart, one per order. Type: Small Rifle Match. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Also, though I did not retain the article, some years ago I recall an article in Shooting Times that addressed the hotness of primers. This charge fills the case to about half 0000015039 00000 n 0000004308 00000 n 0000028040 00000 n - Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at higher pressures (55,000 psi) should use CCI 450, CCI BR4, Fed 205 and Rem 7 1/2. Laurie loaded .308 Win ammo* with 16 LR primer varieties and then tested for average velocity, ES/SD, and group size. Dev. Rifle Calibers; Rifle Recoil Table; Handgun Caliber Chart; Handgun Recoil Chart; Caliber Comparisons; Ammo Size Chart; Shot Size Chart; . It takes a Large Rifle Magnum primer to reliably light this much powder. 0000077528 00000 n 22661. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. $79.99: 45 wks ago: Notify: Midway: CCI Large Rifle 7.62mm NATO-Spec Military Primers 34. It does show there are great differences in primers RIfle Primers Brand/type_____Power Average___Range____Std. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Fiocchi 616 Shotshell Primers #209 | 1,000 Count $ 89.99. Buy in store-Limit 2. It is beyond question that switching primers can often improve (lower) ES/SD with a given load. Stronger hit is probably more consistent. Hi Laurie, your comment re S&Bs slack fit raises my question. brass. Reply. Three shot groups. Primer with Biggest Group Size: CBC Magtech 9 (0.7 average, three 5-shot groups). were selected and match prepped, all have the same weight. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Primer burn rate(?) Size Large. 0000015151 00000 n startxref If you are shooting a 22 Cooper, Hornet, or a Bee, the .020" cup will perform admirably. On the one hand, it's a shame that we don't have better information about primers. Thanks. LR Primer Types Tested for Velocity, ES/SD, Group Size and More! If you shoot a .308 Win, or any cartridge that uses a Large Rifle (LR) primer, you should read an important article by Laurie Holland in Target Shooter Magazine. (Heat) and cause different powders to react differently. I am keen to understand how the Sellior and Bellots went ,not sure on some of the abbreviations.Sellior and bellot are becoming quite common place in Australia,though I havent seen many reviews as to their primers,as they are the cheapest ,they may not always be the best.currently running up loads of Swede using 2209 and Sierra 123hpbt. Large Rifle = LR, Large Rifle Magnum = LRM, Large pistol =LP, Brand/type Power Average Range Std. It stands to reason that such cusp cartridges, as I like to call them, would have . These primers are designed for everything from small-caliber rifles and handguns to the large-caliber rifles . AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. However, if the trends among the primers you tested hold true across a wide variety of different powders and cartridges, it would greatly facilitate selecting a small number of different primers to keep on hand to test in the event that the first choice was unsatisfactory. NRA Member..SWCA Member..Semi-Retired, But Not Dead Yet. Add to Wishlist. 3.8-4.8 .3218, 12 KVB 7 LR Russian 4.27 3.8-4.8 .2213, 13 Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old) 4.16 3.8-4.8 .3427, 14 Rem LP 4.47 0000007461 00000 n A few were of 50 when limited amounts were available. 18,4. Keep them all the same. This may be the most comprehensive and thorough LR primer test ever done. (The total velocity spread for all primers was 35 fps). This extensive test is an important contribution to the knowledge base of precision shooting. 200 Large Rifle Primers - 100 Count. Sep 9, 2009. So, don't take this as gospel but as a rough indicator. Take them with a grain of salt and as a guide only. Here are the primer types tested: Test Rig: Osprey Rifles-built F-TR rifle with Savage PTA action, 32 Bartlein 1:12-twist Heavy Palma barrel, and Dolphin Gun Company modular stock with an F-Open/Benchrest fore-end. Large Rifle = LR, Large Rifle Magnum = LRM, Large pistol =LP, Brand/type Power Average Range Std. Three shot groups. P. Plinker147 Well . http://www.prfelr0.f2s.com/prfelr0/primers1.jpg, http://www.prfelr0.f2s.com/prfelr0/primers2.jpg. It's higher than 30-30, and not much less than the 30-06. Not that I've ever seen. All the following loads were with the Berger 85 grain . Great info. All the following groups were 3 shots at 100 yards, I wrote I guess what my question boils down to is whether you think the range of primer performance you observed in your test here would carry over to other cartridges and powder selections. Buy Reloading > Components > Primers - Gun City are the leading firearms experts in New Zealand. Dont know why they tested 210M primers as they seem to have gone the way of the passenger pigeon. were very even, but this was a limited lot and they are not widely available. The Wolf Small rifle with the copper cup I've had failure to fire with my light striking bolt guns, but they go bang every time in my ar15. Good read! 5.0 out of 5 star rating (5) With those caveats: Forgot to add: there is no difference between the Fed 210 and the 210M except that the 210M is their match primer. CCI 300 STD Large Rifle Primers - 100 Ct. No media assets available for preview. 338 Lapua size. While working my way through college at a local gun shop, I advised a customer frustrated with his inaccurate handloads to try match-grade primers. 0000053407 00000 n Check With Your Local Ammo. PRIMER LEGEND . Great article/op. One of the frozen rounds with the CCI BR 2 hang fired. LRM = Large Rifle Mag . _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-6323545-2']); The following are with 92 grains of H 870, same bullet and What is the pressure of a .44mag? 0000054368 00000 n I only remember that there wasn't a heckuva lot of difference in any of them, until you start comparing one end of the list against the opposite. We thought we would run our own test, using all the different primers that we have here. Large rifle primers all appear to have the same cup thickness, no matter what the type. The standard primer types are pistol, pistol magnum, rifle, and rifle magnum. Cameron. Very interesting. 091014. Both for 6.5 CM. ALL Bulletin content is copyrighted, 2023 AccurateShooter.com. The following are the results of a 308 Winchester, shot in Any thoughts? Small pistol primers - which are about the same size as small rifle primers but designed specifically for handguns. 0000027119 00000 n I'm am not doing this again! 0000028191 00000 n Credit should also be given to Target Shooter Magazine for publishing the results. Different Primers On The Load. shoot them as a group, noting both the velocity and the accuracy, and compare I think I am going to try out some 450's now because I don't need to worry about slam fires in my 6.5x47L and they tend to be cheaper. In early black powder guns such as muzzleloaders, the primer was essentially the same chemical as the main propellant (albeit usually in a finer-powdered form), but poured into an external flash . groups. And, NO! The following loads are with 41.2 grains of VVN 540, which These primers use a heavier, thicker cup to withstand the more intense small-cased rifle cartridges such as the .222 and .223 Remingtons. Large rifle primers are 0.008" thicker than a large pistol primer. Reloaders know that primers come in various designations: large pistol vs small pistol, large rifle vs small rifle, etc. 0000076375 00000 n $7.99. One (minor) reason that small primer brass may be better than many standard LR types is that it usually noticeably easier to seat SR primers and to get good feel on their contacting the pocket floor. A larger sweet spot means more reliable ignition in guns that produce off-center hits. There's not a lot of variance in primer burn rate, only in quantity of powder to burn per primer. Originally designed for the bolt-action Mosin-Nagant rifle, it was used during the late tsarist era and throughout the Soviet period to the present day. CCI "APS" Large Rifle Primers Strip . $11.99. $8.09. It has a 27-inch barrel, and we installed a Remington - 209. Ive since rerun the series with .308 Win Palma brass and small primers. SP = Small Pistol . You will have match. Laurie loaded .308 Win ammo* with 16 LR primer varieties and then tested for average velocity, ES/SD, and group size. The following loads were with 48 grains of VVN 550 powder, This is likely a matter of conjecture. mounts. Come join the discussion about performance, gunsmithing, troubleshooting, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! All Primers have a different Brisance. A good question Clive! I load those in hornet 222 220 swift and other varmint calibers. Thanks OP for posting. I just remembered people liking them. 0000053144 00000 n Up to 6,000 psi difference just by changing primer brands. here that there is nothing scientific about this experiment. Three shot groups. ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? At .020' thick cup metal, these primers are minimal, at best, for light .223 Remington loads. Interesting that the CCI BR2 was running hotter than the CCI 200. A F215 in a .338 Win Mag load. Add to Wishlist. use the Brisance chart to adjust the powder charge to a safe level. chart, http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/, http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm. firing 15 Nosler 130-gr. The effects of different primers, normal and magnums, on a load have been discussed many times before. $115.00. These are the links to the two pages, directly. 0000076644 00000 n 5180 meters per second for Azide, 5200 meters per second for Styphnate.3. 547 0 obj <>stream Standard deviation . Apr 30, 2012. grains in, or a variety of combinations). LR = Large Rifle . Fishing Bait Chart; Hunting Camo Patterns; Guns. Since then almost every company has changed their primers. CCI BR2 and the Fed 's were the most even of the common ones. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. only the velocity is the average of the three groups above it. endstream endobj 2830 0 obj <. Closed the bolt and off she went. Click Photo to read full test results in Target Shooter Magazine. 5.2-6.5 .4437, 3 CCI 250 LRM 5.66 Yeah yeah yeah, and matchkings won't kill a deer. The LRP is at least .008 taller than the LPP and has a significantly thicker cup (not shown on chart). 300 | 1,000 Count $ 42.99. There are a great many views on the subject, a few based on tests (including primer flame photography) but most apparently hearsay. Laurie Holland. Lee Reloading Auto-Prime Hand Priming Tool. You are using an out of date browser. This testing was done to try and rank primers by power (brisance). 100%. Many handloaders think the 215 is still the hottest commercial rifle primer, but the CCI and Winchester magnum rifle primers are just as hot, if not a little hotter. I used the CCI large pistol magnums primers, and they performed just like rifle primers, they didn't peirce, or flatten, ignited the rifle powder just fine. Between these two extremes are Large Rifle primers of almost any brisance level. 6,5 to 9,3 mm: 100: 10: 33: 18,4: 40,5: Percussion caps. Clive. Remington AmmunitionRemington Large Rifle Magnum Primers #9-1/2M Box of 1000. We are here to talk about primers. We used Lapua brass and the Match event calendar and rifle competition accuracy training tips. I thought wolf and tula were unobtanium via Russia? The amount of work involved to do the same test as you conducted herein would be immense, which is probably why it has never been published together as a single body of work. Get a deck of Remington Playing Cards for $1 with ammo purchase. http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/003275.html, [This message has been edited by Dutch (edited 02-08-2002).]. WSL. $7.49. Out of stock. Primer with Smallest Group Size: Remington 9 LR (0.43 average, three 5-shot groups) SPM = Small Pistol Mag . I know this powder is far too slow for this application, but we thought 0000001584 00000 n Federal Champion Centerfire Small Rifle Primer - 100 Ct. No media assets available for preview. The cartridge remains one of the few standard-issue rimmed . Equipment reviews (.243 bullets, 30BR cartridge, 6mm Norma. The rationale for doing side-by-side tests is to see what effect primer choice has on ballistics, i.e. Primer Testing Reference You will see a large difference if you go from a large rifle primer to a magnum primer so look at primer Brisance. The pressure changed dramatically sometimes (8k-13k PSI). CCI primers offer the reloader clean, reliable ignition. Primer Flash Test Photos. SR = Small Rifle . Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Well done gentlemen, Share the post "Ultimate Large Rifle Primer Shoot-Out 16 Types Tested". It has a Hart barrel #5 and a All 2:43 will have a large rifle . All cases for each group The average group size for the top six primers varied by only 0.10 (0.43 to 0.53), so one cant conclude that one type is much better than another. coated. For example, would you guess that Sellier & Bellot primers had the lowest ES, by a significant margin? And real standardization. July 9, 2018. size, one of which would be a ball powder. The test stand used in the link would be a good way to do this because it doesn't need powder and only measures the primer itself. 0000001395 00000 n A different order between a few wouldn't surprise me in the least - especially if I did it all again with a different standard load. When pkts start getting loose, switch to them and get couple extra firings. the results of each group so you can compare that with others, as well as the group Fiocchi Large Rifle Primers. Primer with Highest ES/SD: Remington 9 M Magnum (47/14.0 fps) Warning: Some published data calls for Large Rifle primers, though this brass was designed for, and most data is for Large Pistol primers. CCI "APS" Large Pistol Primers Strip No. They are very similar in their rate of propagation. The one published by "precision shooting" is posted at the following link: http://www.prfelr0.f2s.com/prfelr0/ click on primer 1 and primer2. Most of the tests were of 100 or more primers. Federal 215 and Winchester standard and magnum LR primers. Buy in store-Limit 2. different case sizes. 6mmBR.com is the best guide for 6mm BR Benchrest precision shooting, complete with 6BR FAQ, Reloading Data, Shooter Message Boards, Reader Polls, and Photo Gallery. primers could be tested at different temperatures under the same conditions to see if temperatures made any difference. The rifle has a 26-inch barrel. borrowed. June 3rd, 2015 LR Primer Types Tested for Velocity, ES/SD, Group Size and More! Their magnum LR primer is the F215. average of all the 4 groups above it. This has been noted by some sharps shooters when they break a firing pin. . CCI No. Does anyone have any information regarding the characteristics of S & B primers and how they compare to the other primer brands described above? The US industry standards for Boxer primers are: Small pistol and rifle diameter: .175" Small pistol and rifle height: .110" Large pistol and rifle diameter: .210" Large pistol height: .110" Large rifle height: .120" At the factory, primer cups are cut out of a sheet of material much like a giant cookie cutter where they look much like a small . I did not test the 210M. Seems they give me good results across the board. see how these components would perform under the conditions stated here. 0000027667 00000 n The following are with 80 grains of VVN 165, same bullet Does this indicate that one primer creates more pressure for about the same velocity or does this mean that some primers will withstand more pressure before showing signs of failure? 41 - Small Military Rifle Primers | 1,000 Count $ 119.99 $ 99.99. CCI 350 Magnum Large Pistol Primers 100-Pack $ 6 99 6 dollars 99 cents. In part 1 of my Large Rifle Comparison I take a look at each manufacturer's particular primer and give a quick overview. @(aO 0{!{:8:@T @1fpQ{3W=97,_:Xr"Ck&efS cH Se It has always been my impression that low ES/SD correspond to optimized combustion; that is to say when the primer, cartridge volume (pressure cell), powder charge, were all optimized to give optimal combustion for a given bullet weight. The effects of different primers, normal and magnums, on a - All the large rifle primers measured have the same thickness. The ES/SD numbers will therefore be higher than is typical with five-shot strings. $109.99: 42 wks ago: Notify: Grafs: Fiocchi Primer Large Rifle 1 500/bx. were of 50 when limited amounts were available.